Cliven Bundy. Patriot, Tax Deadbeat, Thug? Depends.

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April 19, 2014 by gregrabidoux2013

bundy thug 2

One of the many armed Bundy “militia” who threatened to kill government agents. Though I don’t think that’s military issue camo the woman is wearing.

In what is being hailed as a victory of the common man over Big Brother, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) citing public safety, recently withdrew its armed agents from around the Bundy Ranch in Sagebrush County, Nevada.

This ended a week-long, tense, stand-off with both sides claiming the moral and legal high-ground over what is, at its core, a long-running dispute over cattle-grazing rights, unpaid back taxes over $1 million dollars and allegations of harassment, coercion and intimidation from both sides.

I say “sides” as Mr. Bundy, owner of the Bundy Ranch had his immediate family at his side in his ranch-compound and what he called his extended family, over 100 heavily-armed “militia” members from across the country who joined his “cause” and vowed to fight the government to the death.

Bundy thug

Happy to join in the fun he also gets more frequent flyer miles for his effort

While this heated stand-off raised the awful specter of “another Waco” and captured the imagination and sympathy of national news outlets like Fox Television, this dispute started simmering as far back as 1993. Back then, the United States Forest Service alleged that Bundy had illegally appropriated thousands of acres of public land to allow his private stock of cattle to graze and began imposing a series of fines and taxes. Today, some 21 years later that amount has swelled to $1.2 million in back taxes owed.

Bundy refuses to pay and claims that the US Government is  “illegitimate” and “has no jurisdiction in the state of Nevada.”

In between 1993 and this past week in April of 2014, the federal government on behalf of both Republican and Democrat Administrations has been in a nearly uninterrupted dispute with many ranchers like Bundy. At the heart of these disputes has been a conservation plan that in part calls for limiting free-range cattle grazing and stricter enforcement of private v public land grazing as well as cracking down on unlicensed mineral prospecting and off-road recreational vehicle use.

One of the main goals of this two decades-plus plan is to protect the endangered Tortoise species. There have also been announced plans for wildlife preserves.

tortoise

Don’t blame me just because I won the race.

These plans don’t sit well with Bundy and his allies. And quite frankly, they never have. In fact, court transcripts over the years have Bundy declaring that Nevada is a free territory and not rightfully part of the United States and most recently, he has demanded that all federal agents in the Nevada area be disarmed immediately, if necessary at gunpoint by himself and other “militia” members.

But an exchange of harsh words and accusations has only been part of this unfolding story.There have also been at least four investigations of domestic terrorism after pipe-bombs exploded in several federal offices in the Sagebrush County area. But so far, no arrests have been made.

So, where do we stand now in the recent wake of this latest stand-off?

Well, predictably the media coverage has pretty much gone according to predisposed ideology. Fox News and many of its pundits have portrayed this in a “little guy v big, bad feds” narrative. Bundy and his fellow armed sympathizers have been hailed as “patriots” who are “protecting the American way” and that “ranchers and not tortoises” won in a display of “cowboy courage.”

John wayne

Hey, my cowboy courage ended when the director yelled “Cut.”

Meanwhile, many liberal commentators have called Bundy and his fellow militia-members “thugs” and are distributing petitions calling for the White House to demand that “Bundy the tax cheat” pay up in full what he owes the Government. They say he is a coward who hid behind women and children at his compound, using them as “human shields,” almost daring the Federal Agents to engage in a firefight.

Thankfully, at least so far, no one on either side has lost their life due to recklessness or false bravado. But the stakes continue to be high and emotions even higher all around.

Me, I get nervous when anyone starts bandying around the sobriquet “Patriot.” If, for no other reason than I fear they are referring to that God-Awful movie with Mel “Mad Max” Gibson.

Mad Mel Gibson

No one calls me a patriot after I’ve hit my favorite watering hole

I am curious though, why some conservatives speak so reverently of the “rule of law” yet seem so quick to champion the cause of someone who has lost every round in a court of law.  And who then trashes our nation’s supposedly cherished “rule of law” by threatening to kill every last agent of such laws when they try and enforce the law of the land.

My vision must be going faster than I feared because the line between patriot and domestic terrorist or downright criminal starts to blur. I just paid my 2013 taxes and I didn’t like it but I also didn’t choose to hole myself up somewhere armed to the teeth and claim the US lacks sovereignty over me as Bundy did and threaten to shoot the joint up if I didn’t get my way.

If instead of a wild west rancher let’s pretend it was an armed group of African-American men who were in a dispute with  the Feds over what they saw as an illegitimate “foreclosure grab.” Sure they went to court but that was just a “White Man’s” sham. So, with guns pointed, they read passages from the First Amendment and dared the Feds to “trespass” and execute any court order. Then, joined by several other armed Black “Militia” men a tense stand-off ensued. And the Feds backed down.

Would Fox News hail them as “Patriots?” Or just common criminals who broke the law?

Cows

Maybe if we had a funny slogan like our cousins at Chick-Filet?

On the other hand, liberal hand-wringers who say this is exactly why we need even more stringent gun regulations don’t seem to get that the vast majority of those of us who are responsible gun-owners would not join up in such an armed “rebellion” against the “man” and demand “justice” at gun-point when we failed to obtain legal remedies.

You see because therein lies the problem. Either you see the Government as legitimate or you don’t. And it has to be one or the other. You can’t say you love your country and you are a true patriot only when it’s convenient. Or, only when you happen to like the president in office at the time.

Either the USA is a legitimate nation governed by the rule of law with full jurisdiction over all 50 states or it is not. I get that Cliven Bundy is frustrated and wants free-range, unfettered right to graze his cattle wherever and whenever he wants. I get that he sees any regulations protecting the endangered Tortoise and establishing a wildlife preserve as intrusive and a real pain in his rawhide.

Bundy tv show

The real Bundy directed his anger inward, apparently.

But I also get that the courts over the last two decades don’t agree and that other than him claiming he has complete sovereignty from all federal agents he hasn’t offered much in the way of actual proof or evidence. In fact, he admits that according to the law his cattle are trespassing but that he isn’t “bound by their laws.”

Ok, try and do what he and his pals did the next time you get into a legal dispute that doesn’t go your way and see what happens.

I guess if you live in Nevada and have friends who are in their own “militias” then you get to be the exception. And hailed as a patriot.

But where does it stop?

Do these militias get to force the Government to back down when they try and enforce laws involving national parks, wildlife preserves, inconvenient traffic lights, school integration, Obamacare?

Maybe we should all just follow those laws we like and then recruit armed, unofficial “militias” for those laws we don’t particularly like or that cost us money.

Maybe might does make right after all.

Sorry, but I don’t see any heroes in this sad, story. I see a rancher who won’t pay his taxes but can’t prove his case in court despite many chances. I see an overly aggressive government who should work closer with state and local officials to craft for more reasonable resolutions and long-term agreements. I see conservationists who need to strike a more common-sense balance between people and tortoises.

MIB

Maybe these government agents would have handled matters better.

And I see a liberal and conservative media that choose to fan the flames of ignorance and anger in their respective viewer base for their own gain and higher tv ratings. Regardless of how dangerous or reckless it is.

In other words I see things playing out as they almost always do. And that’s the real tragedy here.

bengal-tiger-why-matter_73410431.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

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49 thoughts on “Cliven Bundy. Patriot, Tax Deadbeat, Thug? Depends.

  1. Wade M says:

    This situation is really scary to me when a militia type group takes on the government. We are fortunate that no one has been killed. I will go on record to say that I am not a fan of Fox News and they will not help this situation as they will surely stir things up. The only thing that we can hope for is a peaceful ending in this scenario.

  2. Chris L says:

    Great post. Second time today that I have read the word sobriquet as well. But you raise a good point that I have seen a few other pages bring up. How can you be a Patriot of a country while denouncing that same country? Doesn’t make much sense to me. Seems both sides trying to make a whole lot of something out of very little. In the end someone is getting/making/spending/ money and the 4th branch (main stream media) keeps going on fanning the flames.

  3. Amber T says:

    Bundy is a thug, pure and simple and his bundy buddies just want to shoot someone in a uniform…pay up Bundy like the rest of us. Now as for what Dr. Rabidoux calls the “real” Bundy, well he’s a hero for putting up with Peg!

  4. Brayden M says:

    I am so sick of deadbeats being made out to be patriots I could spit…he made his case in court and lost, several times, so why is he a hero showing cowboy courage, just because he has thug friends with ammo?? Real patriots respect the law and institutions of the nation they claim to love so much, put the thug in jail where he belongs, if they were Muslims defending their Mosque claiming the feds were not legitimate would Fox say they were heroes?? No way, they’d want Obama to blow them all up.

  5. Chelsea P says:

    Personally, your average Tortoise has more dignity than Bundy and his hired goons

  6. Jon Musselwhite says:

    The government shouldn’t be able to use force against the American people just cause they want something that they don’t already own. A patriot is someone who fights for a cause they don’t always have to be a hero.

    • Javon M says:

      The government was not at Bundy ranch to get something they don’t already own…the government was there to finally take action after literally over a decade of fines, warnings, and lost court decisions and appeals and Bundy knew this. They were there to lawfully enforce the law and to seize cattle towards paying off at least some of the $1.2 million owed. Where is the patriotism in threatening to kill civilian agents with unofficial militia members? Dr. R is right, would you all feel the same way if it was someone that looked like me showing their patriotism by intimidation just cause you don’t like the law??

  7. John K says:

    When I think of the word “patriot”, I think of an American standing up for what is right against a tyrannical government, but this is not the case sadly. As an American, you should have the right to speak your mind if there is an issue, but you should also respect and obey the laws of the country. It is not like the government was being unjust with Bundy; this has been going on for years, and Bundy and his militia have taken it to an extreme. While you should have the right bear arms, again only when the government is being the oppressor and its really the opposite in this case. The government would just take their cattle or make them pay the taxes, while Bundy sprays them with bullets. What Bundy and his army should do is settle this in a more justify way than start a mini civil war. Maybe settle this in court? And of course, the news has to make this a big controversial subject which doesn’t surprise me one bit. Bundy and his men don’t seem like patriots but rebels.

  8. Kelly M says:

    I agree with the comment of being sick of hypocrites who brag on loving this country but at the first chance they get they want to blow up crap or kill anyone who disagrees with them! Pay your taxes, you are a millionaire rancher, pay up like the rest of us!! And tell your militia thugs to go get a job.

  9. Kyle B says:

    This guy is nothing less than a traitor and a rebel. Declaring that Nevada is a free territory is just stupid. I didn’t get the memo stating that this Bundy character is now the President of the United Nation of Nevada. We as Americans pay our taxes. Get over yourself and pay your taxes like the rest of us.

  10. Burton F says:

    If an individual does not hold title to a property he does not own the property. Mr. Bundy all citizens own the property you are grazing including you. The only catch is we pay if we graze. Are you special Mr. Bundy?

    • Taton Thompson says:

      Look at the percentage of Nevada that the Federal Government already owns and then look how small the population is of this tortoise and this grouse is. To me, this is relevant. I am not sure if it is to you. He needed to expand, yet the government only barricaded him into a small piece of property, yet he contributes thousands of pounds of beef into that industry every year.

      • He claims well over 500,000 acres, this is being barricaded? Again, I get that he may feel the law is not equitable but he doesn’t get to unilaterally take the law in his own hands and threaten to kill folks because he disagrees and doesn’t want to pay his back taxes. Also, his comments that he thinks African-Americans were better off picking cotton and being slaves than today may offer some insight into his belief system similar to Mr. Sterling’s, either way, neither of these guys deserve to be near any “hero” label…

      • Taton Thompson says:

        I dont disagree with his racist comments, but I will note I have seen several black leaders on the conservative side agree with his statement. Therefore, he may be out of place to me and you there, but it resonate with some in a positive way. Also, he does own a lot of land, but also note that the Federal Government seized the best land for grazing and left land for ranchers that was only average or below average. Nevertheless, I do acknowledge he owns quite a bit of land.

  11. Jasen P says:

    I can understand the arguments from both sides and I get why each side did what they did. It is sad how the media has to change the story from how it truly is just to get a rise out of people and to get people interested, but that is something that the media has always done and will forever do. I understand why the rancher is doing what he is doing because he can not get any justice in the courts and if making a big uproar about it and banding together gets him justice then why not. I can also understand that there are laws that he needs to abide by and follow. These men feel what they are doing is right in their own eyes and in later years we might just call them patriots, but just like in the revolutionary war, others thought that people who defiled the king were crazy but we now call them patriots. Just because they are cowboys with guns and not a lawyer with a pen does not make them less of a patriot in their own way.

  12. […] and taxes. Today, some 21 years later that amount has swelled to $1.2 million in back taxes owed. Cliven Bundy. Patriot, Tax Deadbeat, Thug? Depends. | The Daily Growl __________________ "Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because […]

  13. Julie A says:

    I found your article to be very honest, which as you stated is missing in the media and politics these days. Both the conservaties and liberals want to spin issues in order to get what they want out of them. As you state, open and honest conversation from both conservationists, ranchers, local, state and federal government representatives should be held to address the true issues each party faces. While no one group will get everything they want, if they are willing to work on a resolution, then one that benefits everyone is likely to be achieved. This situation mirrors what is happening in Washington and why the majority of citizens are fed up. How about those in public office remembering that they are there to serve the citizens they represent instead of pursing their own interests and agendas? It is the only way to move our nation forward. They need to remember that they need to seek the greater good of our society. Yes, we all have individual rights, but when you use your rights to infringe upon the rights of others, you have crossed the line in my opinion. Would it be so bad to look at others needs before your own just once? Try looking at the issue from a different point of view and see if your perspective doesn’t change. No one person can be right all the time. Let’s take the best of each group and find a solution that will work for all.

  14. sherrea says:

    I feel this article is just another great example of our society ignorance , Now in days in one can become a hero or iconic figure in america all it takes is a good camera and great lighting. From past to present the characteristics of whats makes a hero have change. I feel they have change for the worst, and a good reason i feel this way is because of this post .

  15. Takym V. says:

    Good thing that no one in this situation was harmed, but for bundy to do this action I think was fairly stupid. I understand that he is speaking his opinion and belief but to cause a major scene was highly uneccasry.

  16. Erik C says:

    The Government shouldn’t have the right to just force him to do things with his property just because they said so. Bundy doesn’t care what they say . He is doing what he wants because it is his land and its been with his family for years.

    • Burton F says:

      If it was his land I would agree with you. However, In this particular situation the said land is Federal land. The land belongs to all citizens. All ranchers pay grazing fees to graze livestock on Federal land. Why should Mr.Bundy be exempt?

      • Why, indeed? Because he doesn’t agree with the law? he admits to the trespassing but has said “their laws don’t apply to me” so, besides the might of guns backed by his militia friends, I am still not fully clear on the might and right of his (legal) argument though trying to keep an open mind…

  17. Leslie H. says:

    Now that Mr. Bundy’s most recent comments about slavery and the highly insensitive use of the term “negro” have been made public Fox News and other public supporters are outraged. They should have been outraged because he is breaking the law and threatening to kill people. He is no different than the Mexican Cartels who don’t think laws apply them, They threaten to kill federal police officers (and do) along with anyone who gets in their way. The only difference is I have never heard a Mexican Cartel leader speak of how we need to re-enslave an entire race of people. Their business (while is illegal) is to make money at all cost. That is exactly what Bundy is doing — making money off taxpayer owned land and vowing to continue to do it at all cost. He is a criminal and in need of extensive psychiatric help. .

  18. Taton T says:

    What Bundy has done is not right. However, the Federal Government already owns so much of Nevada; it is my opinion that they could work with this man who claims that America would have 50,000 less hamburgers if it were not for his beef. Additionally, he owes 1.2 million and that is not right, but there others who owe more. Take Al Sharpton for example. A recent article I seen suggested that he owed 1.9 million, yet there were no guns, but there was Barack Obama parading him in front of a podium for a fundraiser of his.

    2 wrongs do not make a right. However, equal treatment would be nice.

  19. Amanda H-D says:

    I think what’s sad is this man thinks he is above the law avoiding fees while other ranchers are paying theirs. There are people out there who are just looking for an excuse to incite revolution because they distrust the government so much their paranoia has taken over. I feel there should be a healthy level of distrust of the government but this man has lost all sense of rationality and possibly some of his sanity. He honestly sounds like some of these weird “sovereign citizen” lawsuits we get sometimes. People who claim they are their own citizens and the government has no right to tell them what to do, yet they still send their children to public school, use public roads, use city water.

  20. Nia R says:

    The situation is all foul to me. I read this at least twice and still do not understand what is going on . All I see is a man that owes money to the government, the government trying to bully the money and the media making this more than what it is. The government needs to find a way to make sure people don’t end up owing so much money in taxes. As far as the militia surrounding the ranch, that should have been shut down pronto. I see this as a messy situation that really doesn’t deserve all the attention it is getting.

  21. Allison M says:

    In reading some of the things Mr. Bundy has said, I think he’s a downright idiot. Where in the world did he get the idea that Nevada doesn’t fall under Federal law?? I can see both sides of this argument but the bottom line is, Bundy is endangering US citizens and owes the government money. He’s in the wrong no matter how much he doesn’t like it. Either way, he’s going to get the short end of this stick. Just because he feels special and thinks he’s above the law doesn’t him a patriot anymore than being my daddy’s princess makes me entitled to help the Queen of England with her paperwork. That’s just not how it works. Sometimes, with enough support from your peers, a cause is worth the fight. Bundy doesn’t have that support from his fellow ranchers. They pay to let their cattle free range on federal land and by not doing so himself he’s just alienating himself from them. Try again Mr. Bundy..just not anytime soon.

  22. David S says:

    It’s more than a little scary to me to think that there a lot of people in this country who think along the same lines as Mr. Bundy. I agree with what’s been said regarding those who cherish this being a country that supports the rule of law, but then support those who appear to take the law into their own hands. Sometimes things don’t go the way we think they should, sometimes people get screwed by the system, but that doesn’t give someone the right to take the law into their own hands. I’m amazed this whole thing has gone on for as long as it has.

  23. Steve M says:

    What a lot of folks are failing to see is that according to Nevada law, the feds do not have the right to go onto someone else’s property, kill livestock and threaten it’s inhabitants. They “the feds” are suppose to request from the local officials, in this case the local sheriffs department to go to the property owner. Most of these so call “feds” that were there were not even federal agents, but security ahem forces from blackwater,etc. Which most people, unless they are old enough to understand who those folks are, would have no clue the kind of rep they have. And with more in depth investigation it is also coming to light that they were not actually there to protect the tortoises which was evident from the images released of these so called feds running over said tortoise. The government wants that land for other uses that involve foreign governments and companies that want to be able to go in and start fracking sites. So they are more willing to go after farmers who have been grazing on federal lands for longer then any of us have been alive, understandably if it was only for fees and taxes ok. But they let these folks who owe even more millions to the government go about their business because they contribute to someone political war chest..

    • OK, here’s a scenario. A Nevada rancher is holding a cult ceremony on his property. They are sacrificing livestock and children are also part of the ceremony. They are armed and say if anyone attempts to enter they will do whatever is necessary.

      So, federal agents go onto the property, kill the wounded, dying livestock and threaten the rancher and their cult militia to “stand down.”
      Seems your reasoning would say Nevada Law would not “allow” federal agents onto the property.

      How do you get around Article VI of the US constitution in this scenario and in real-life example?

      • Taton Thompson says:

        I simply believe that Nevada law is higher than Federal law. However, our current administration tends to pick and choose when they want the state to have power and when they want the Federal Government to have power. Quite a sad make up actually.

      • Article VI? How do we get around the supremacy clause when Nevada is concerned? A little confuse dhere though your argument probably makes a lot of Nevadans happy!

  24. Gabrielle W says:

    Okay, so, let me just make this point first: just because someone is a rancher, does not make them any more “American” than anyone else. Just because he’s a cowboy, doesn’t mean he’s trying to “protect the American way”. This man, who doesn’t even see the government as being legitimate, is being called a patriot? Interesting. I mean, I guess if I owed 1.2 million dollars in taxes, I’d probably try to convince myself that the government wasn’t legitimate either. At the end of the day, saying Santa Claus is real, doesn’t make him real; just like saying the government is illegitimate doesn’t make it illegitimate. Am I saying the government is 100% right? No. Am I saying that he shouldn’t be mad that they’re wanting to use the land to conserve tortoises? No. But if that’s how the government chooses to use the land, they can do that. I do, however, believe that if someone else is having to pay taxes to have their livestock grazing on public land, so should Bundy. If he doesn’t want to pay taxes to graze on the land, he could easily just stay on his own land. Basically, just because Bundy thinks he’s above the government, doesn’t mean he actually should be. It’s totally unnecessary for him to have brought out militias to fight against the government about the land that belongs to them.

    • Gabrielle-you make some fine, thoughtful points…you must have been the recipient of some fine instruction in this area at some point in your life :)….on the other hand, you seem to imply that Santa Claus is in fact not real, this is not going to sit well with whomever keeps eating my cookies and milk on Christmas eve and leaving me presents…Perhaps it’s best if I simply don’t ask.

  25. vtshipman says:

    Mr. Bundy is a strange person who does not understand how the federal government operates. He is wacky. His elevator does go all the way to the top. But I can understand his frustration in that up until 20 years ago his family (for about 200 years he claims) has grazed cattle on federal land in the State of Nevada. He was prohibited from doing this because the EPA indicated the habitat of a large turtle was being threatened by the grazing activity. Bundy should obey the law but fight for what he thinks is right in court. Simply refusing to accept the consequences of civil disobedience is not acceptable. Even Rosa Parks accepted the fact that she would get a ticket for not moving to the back of the bus. Laws are passed and then replaced with other laws as conditions change. Living in the past doesn’t give you the right to break current laws. But the federal government should not have tried to collect his cattle during the middle of the night using 200 armed agents. There has to be other options that removes potential hostile confrontation and innocent people being harmed by the actions of one man.

  26. Nick C says:

    I feel this situation started in my mind as government over-reach and turned into one in which a few citizens are taking the law into their own hands. I believe there is wrong headed thinking on both sides. I have a lot of negative feelings about how the government handled this whole situation starting with what I believe is a little bit of a ridiculous law putting turtles over the needs of people. Second is government intrusion of property rights. While the first two can be debated this last to me seems very clear to be a mistake in which is that the government choose to be very aggressive and use physical force, they could of just as easy taken the taxes owned when Bundy dies. While being aggressive in my mind is a bad idea but to make it worse is when there was resistance they choose to back down which will only encourage more groups to solve problems with government with guns. If the government becomes aggressive regardless of the cost they must win. The government can’t be bullied when it really wants something it has to happen they made the choice now follow through. On the other side Bundy must respect the court of get his congressman to win his fight for him not waving guns around period.

  27. Casey H says:

    Not recognizing our government does not mean you can do anything you want without punishment. He owes money to the government, and refuses to pay it and for some reason people get behind this man? Fox News of course rallies the conservatives behind him, but that’s a rant for another day. It’s sad that people are getting behind a man for avoiding his punishment, and are willing to defend him against authorities. I just can’t see their logic in supporting Bundy, especially with the videos of him making racist remarks.

  28. Chris h says:

    I believe bundy went to the extreme on this one. He didn’t need all these reinforcements just to voice his opinion. This made situations drastic and put many people in danger. This was not the way to do that.

  29. Andrew N says:

    I see a very similar comparison of Cliven Bundy to the typical sovereign citizen. He seems to feel that the government has no right to impede on his way of life and that he is justified in using deadly force to defend that right. He is no patriot! A patriot is someone who robustly supports their country and is prepared to defend it against their enemies. I hardly think the Bureau of Land Management even comes close to fitting the description of an “enemy.” Clive Bundy is nothing more than a sore loser and knows he has a hopeless case in court so he resorts to intimidation and threats of violence.

  30. Rachel B. says:

    One of the things that bother me most about this situation is the fact the Bundy basically claims the federal government is false and has no jurisdiction over him, yet I wonder how many benefits he has derived from living in this nation with its government. Citizens of the U.S. are granted rights and given opportunities. Bundy wants to live in the U.S. where he can partake in these opportunities yet claim he isn’t under the government. We have a military that protects our nation and its citizens. He benefits from their protection. We have services that help keep our cities safe and clean (somewhat at least) which he can benefit from while not adhering to the laws. Sure there are things that happen that I don’t agree with or like, but I choose to live in this nation and all that comes with it. Do I enjoy paying taxes, or social security especially when it probably won’t even be around when I reach the age to collect? No, but I am also an adult that could leave if I choose to. He has that same right, but by choosing to stay he should abide by the laws. I’m honestly shocked that our government let this go on so long. I wonder how much this could have been avoided if it were truly handled 20 years ago. I understand the government backing down during the standoff in order to prevent casualties. They made a call to save lives. It worries me that Bundy will draw more power because the government backed down. He is not a patriot. I don’t think I would go as far as to call him a terrorist as some have, but he is not under any circumstances what I would call a patriot. I would have suggested a compromise in the earlier stages of the conflict, but at this point I think compromises anything he wants would just give him more power, which he doesn’t deserve. Either way it is handled the situation needs to be resolved and the sooner the better.

  31. matthew. p says:

    Unfortunately, this is where America is going wrong. Too many people are wanting something for free. Nobody wants to pay taxes, but we all do for the greater good. When Bundy is exploiting public land and not paying taxes, we are the one’s that ultimately pay for it. Not to go to political, but this is why we need to remove the IRS tax code and go with a consumption tax. If we use a consumption tax, anyone who consumes anything will be paying taxes.

  32. Autron H says:

    What is the difference between Clive Bundy and the so called welfare queens? If you ask me the welfare queens have a little more decency and are not hypocritical as Mr. Bundy and his supporters. In my view he should be arrested and his property sold to recoup the money owed to the taxpayers and the farmers who does pay the fees. Mr. Bundy and especially all the politicians were just hoping on the band wagon.The first chance Mr. Bundy got to open his you already knew what his most inner thoughts were about. Then all the politicians oh,I mean hypocrites just disowned him and boy they back peddled at 55 miles per hour.

  33. C. McCall says:

    One thing I often hear in America is that it is a free country, usually being said by someone who wants to do what they will without consequences. I have had the opportunity to travel to a few other countries (third world included) and I gathered that the international community honestly feels we are powerful, yet confused. With so many laws and loopholes, it’s no wonder court cases can carry on for generations. It’s fascinating how people pick and choose which laws they want to abide by and expect to be pardoned of wrongdoings based on ‘principle.’ What Bundy did was dangerous and shocking, but Dr. R. notes the media’s reaction to it was typical. In an effort to keep the conversation going, they laud and praise his bravery, until he breaks a different kind of law they feel they can get a better story out of by turning the tables on him. Typical is so often the saddest response.

  34. Gilbert W says:

    Whether urban or rural, black or white, rich or poor, covered or ignored by the media, a thug is a thug. Bundy is no more a patriot than he is Napoleon. He’s just a tax evading rancher who doesn’t want to pay for the benefits he receives from public property. Move along folks….nothing to see here!

  35. valdostaphil says:

    These actions were not the actions of patriots, but traitors. Any American who points a gun at a law enforcement agent of a federal agency or a member of our armed forces should be deemed a terrorist, an enemy combatant, and charged with any of the laws under 18 U.S. Code Chapter 115 – TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES at https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115 that the federal prosecutor can make stick. This stuff is NOT okay. Just like having a standoff with your local town, county, or state law enforcement officers is NOT okay.

    I know Waco left a bad legacy, but I still kind of wish the Nevada National Guard had been called in on this one. As fervent supporters of the military, these individuals would have had no choice but to either surrender for this act of insurrection or fire their weapons on the U.S. military, which would have constituted an act of war or rebellion against the United States government. Just letting the situation diffuse then rounding them all up and charging them in federal court didn’t send a clear enough message.

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